Host: Ezgi Toper
Guest: Reagan Des Vignes

Producer: Ezgi Toper
Craft Editor: Nasrullah Yilmaz
Supervising Editor: Burak Bayram
Executive Producer: Nasra Omar Bwana

Transcript

EZGI: My name is Ezgi Toper, and this is “In the Newsroom”, a TRT Global Podcasts production, where I take you around our newsroom as I chat with my colleagues and go beyond the headlines. 

For the past 10 years, every year was declared the warmest on record. And with high carbon dioxide levels trapping even more heat in our atmosphere, it’s likely that 2025 will be the next to break the heat record. 

The climate crisis is often called a “borderless crisis” as it affects everyone across the planet, but not all of us face the consequences of it equally. Heatwaves are one of the clearest examples of this climate inequality.

Today we explore the class divide in the climate crisis. But before we jump into our newsroom conversation, let’s hear from Sir Robert Tony Watson, a British chemist who has worked on atmospheric science issues including global warming since the 1980s. He recently spoke with TRT World on the climate crisis:

ROBERT: The signs are awfully dangerous aren’t they? I mean the heatwaves in the US, Asia, Europe – all at once! This should be a wake up call for all the world to do stronger, faster, better on climate mitigation.

The world is getting hotter. We’re polluting more and more with carbon dioxide, with methane, other super-climate pollutants, thickening the blanket around the world that’s trapping the heat. We’re still doing that, we are not bending the emission curve nor the warming curve that follows.

You can think of methane as basically a blowtorch that’s adding extra warming. We turn that off, we’ll get fast cooling. That’s what we need. We need it in this decade, next decade. We can’t wait until the mythical decarbonisation and net-zero emissions of CO2 at 2050, that’s too late.

EZGI: Back in the newsroom, I sit down with Reagan Des Vignes, the host of TRT World’s award-winning climate series “Just 2 Degrees”.

REAGAN: The heat has so many repercussions. It means that there's more water vapor in the atmosphere in some places where there's a lot of water, like in Istanbul. It's very humid here because we're close to the Bosphorus Strait, the Golden Horn, etc.

The more water vapour in the atmosphere means clouds have more water in them, the rain is going to be stronger, the storms will be more powerful, the flooding is going to be more likely and more unpredictable.

These things are realities particularly for people in the global South, and I say that because I mean people in the global North do have floods sometimes, but they are better equipped to deal with these floods, they have the infrastructure to deal with it. They have the economies to bounce back when there's damage.

EZGI: In what ways are our infrastructure either protect us or fail us, as you mentioned in the global South?

REAGAN: Asphalt absorbs heat. It absorbs heat and makes things hotter for us. Look at somewhere like New York, oh my God. Concrete.com, right?

EZGI: Those high skyscrapers ooof…

REAGAN: Yeah. Something as simple as two trees on your sidewalk can really help reduce our core temperature because people pass these trees, they pass anything with shade and they cool down rapidly. And so the way cities are constructed are important for us to fight rising temperatures.

EZGI: Is this what they call the urban heat island?

REAGAN: Yeah.

EZGI: The “urban heat island” effect is a major driver of climate inequality in cities. It refers to how urban areas filled with asphalt, concrete, and high-rise buildings trap heat and become significantly hotter than surrounding areas. And often, it’s low-income neighbourhoods that are built with the least shade, the most heat-absorbing materials, and the fewest resources to stay cool.

EZGI: So you're saying a lot of cities are actually not built to withstand the amount of heat that they currently are under and the rising temperatures that are coming ahead?

REAGAN: Of course, and I mean, what are you going to do, break all the buildings down? There are ways to help mitigate this, and one of those ways is by introducing a lot more greenery.

in Singapore they have a policy that allows people to drape their buildings with greenery, with trees and plants, and this actually cools the entire building down. So they would generally tend to use less air conditioning than we would because, you know, they're protected by plants and plants obviously help cool everything down. That's definitely one way to mitigate it.

Obviously extending parks, creating more parks is another way. Put trees on those sidewalks, find a way to get it done. The more shade for us, the safer we'll be.

EZGI: Not everyone is experiencing heat equally, as we talked about these vulnerable communities, can you kind of break down which groups are exposed more or at risk more of suffering from heat waves?

REAGAN: Clearly people who just can't afford to get out of it. People who can't afford air conditioning. People who can't afford the right type of infrastructure in their homes.

People who live in galvanised homes. Those are the worst. Have you ever seen a galvanised home? Oh you’re so young. It's like a sheet of iron that they used to put on these old time houses, and those things just soak up the sun and just make your house like an oven. People use it for their walls, for their roofs. It's like a heat dome. It's like, I mean a dome that just traps heat.

EZGI: Historically, disinvestment in marginalised areas means there is higher vulnerability among low-income communities. These groups also typically have limited access to healthcare, which can be life-saving as extreme heat can cause heat stroke, respiratory problems, stress and even death.

But alongside the state in which people live, we also have to consider where they work. Outdoor workers, such as those who work in agriculture, construction or delivery, are often forced to work in dangerous heat without adequate protection. And many come from lower-income or migrant backgrounds.

REAGAN: People generally are trying to live their lives, the majority of us, but we are affected by something that is much bigger than us that we've had very little contribution in and so this injustice is all about the fact that the wealthy beat us and use us and feed us lies and give us these things that are dirty and polluting and they tell us “no, we're working on stuff that will help make the environment better, but just buy this stuff in the meantime while we figure things out.” These are all lies that we're hearing.

This injustice is about the way that people who don't know better or can't afford better are treated, as we suffer more than anybody else because it's getting hotter.

EZGI: And when we zoom out, the same inequality plays out on a global scale as some countries are paying the price for a crisis they did little to cause. According to the Emissions Database for Global Atmospheric Research, or EDGAR, Bhutan contributes 0.01 percent to global greenhouse gas emissions.

While its neighbour, China, contributes 30.10 percent. In other words, China emits over 3,000 times more gases than Bhutan. Yet, in recent years, the small country has been hit with deadly flash floods that scientists link to the climate crisis.

EZGI: You have countries like Bhutan that contribute very little to global emissions, but they're suffering devastating climate impacts. How does this also play into this global climate justice, where you have these bigger countries, these wealthier countries contributing a lot to the crisis, yet these smaller countries having to then deal with the repercussions?

REAGAN: It's a butterfly factor, right? They burn fossil fuels in the US, we see stronger Pacific storms for Bhutan. I mean that's the reality right now.

Activists and climate organisations are trying to address this climate injustice by at least trying to get funding to communities and countries that both suffer climate disasters every year and also those that need to be climate resilient. They need to get the infrastructure necessary to prevent their homes from being flooded every time there's a lot of rain.

And so there's a lot of pushback right now just out of the recent Barn Climate Summit, rich countries and wealthy corporations once again are pushing back against this idea of increasing the amount of money that is needed to assist these poorer countries and also they're refusing to have this money be distributed as grants, they want the money distributed as loans. They want to create a system where the countries have to pay them back through organisations like the IMF (International Monetary Fund).

They are looking for a business opportunity out of this, and that's a huge injustice. A huge injustice. Bhutan can't afford to pay back billions in money that they get for something that wasn't their fault. They're just asking for assistance for the technology, for the infrastructure. So that when the monsoon rains return, maybe the floods will not create mudslides and take their houses with it, maybe the infrastructure will be better and they can afford to not just move away from rivers but also create a drainage system that channels the floodwaters elsewhere.

This is what they're asking for and global North countries are pushing really hard on that. They said “nope, we want to make money off of this whether you die or not. Just take your time and decide, but we are insistent on making money off of this” and they also want to use the carbon markets, a carbon market system, that allows global north countries or rather any country or company really to balance off the amount of greenhouse gasses they create because they are admittedly trying to balance off the amount of greenhouse gas emissions they create by say giving a community solar panels that gives them credits. A credit system that allows them to balance this out. And they're also trying to use this system to make more money.  It's completely, completely horrific.

EZGI: So, have you come across any examples of communities or countries that are actively working to address this in a way that seems fair, or have you seen any efforts to protect these vulnerable communities that stood out to you?

REAGAN: Let's see. Uruguay comes to mind. Saint Lucia comes to mind. These countries have not waited for the corporate, for the private sector. The governments have created incentives, initiatives that actually get the transition to renewables done a lot faster, a lot more efficiently, without waiting for foreign support, even. So their renewables infrastructure is really advancing at this point in time and they've even created a system where they're teaching other countries how they did it. Uruguay is a really good example of that. I think they're at 90-95% renewable energy use. It's really impressive

EZGI: Wow. That’s amazing.

REAGAN: You wouldn't hear that anyway, would you? No, it’s not big news, but they're doing really big things and they are teaching the rest of the region – the Caribbean, Latin America – how they did it, and it's an amazing success story.

EZGI: Reagan reminds us that there are solutions and there is hope, but all this requires leadership and urgency. Because if we stay on our current path, the future could look very different.

EZGI: I think a lot of people do feel like a victim of the climate when actually we are a part of the reason that it is the way it is. If things don't change, if current warming trends continue, what kind of future are we looking at in terms of heat waves?

REAGAN: If you think the refugee crisis was bad a few years back. It's not going to be as bad as it's going to be when global temperatures rise. People are going to be moving closer to the poles. People are going to be moving to global North and global South countries, further south at least, places like Argentina, Chile, where it's much cooler. Southern African countries, Southern Australian countries, Northern Asian countries.

People are going to start moving away from the equator, moving either north or south. What kind of pressure is that going to put on these other countries and these other regions in the world? I mean, I'm talking far ahead like a century, two centuries, but that's the direction we're heading in. It's going to be a huge migrant issue going on. Huge refugee situation going on with. There are already millions of climate migrants every year.

It's going to be horrific, Ezgi. Horrific. Parts of the world are just going to be unliveable and we won't be able to grow food in many places that we grow food in the global South right now. The food crisis is going to explode.

Where we live has to be improved; it has to get better. Otherwise, I can't… I don't even know what “otherwise” looks like or feels like. If we don't get over our climate finance issues, millions of people are going to die on a yearly — millions more – on a yearly basis. Millions more are going to die on a yearly basis. The global north – and I don't want to say just the global North — rich countries have to get their acts together. They have to realise, but they only realise that they have to pay up, they have to pay up. They just have to.

EZGI: Thank you so much for coming on the show, Reagan.

REAGAN: Thanks for having me.

EZGI: As we consider families stuck in sweltering homes unable to afford high electricity bills from running the AC, farmers forced to work through deadly temperatures to make a livable wage, and entire countries left out of climate funding, it's clear that while no one is immune to rising temperatures, not everyone is equally protected or equally responsible. 

In the way we have designed our cities and set our policies: we’ve built inequality deep within the climate story. We still have time to change direction but the longer we wait, the deeper the divide becomes and the harder it will be to close.

Thanks for tuning in. Until next time, I’m Ezgi Toper, and this was “In the Newsroom”.